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The owner Kerner Zur Alten Weinkelter Ferienap is not fair !

Tel Aviv, Israel
Level Contributor
4 posts
11 reviews
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The owner Kerner Zur Alten Weinkelter Ferienap is not fair !

Hello All

We booked accommodation in Apartment Kerner Zur Alten Weinkelter Ferienapartments


(3 persons, 4 nights) for 30th of August,2013, a one month before the arrival time. We paid the full payment in advance, by our credit card.

3 weeks before the arrival time, we asked the owner Mrs. Maria to cancel the booking and refund our money, because of sudden change in our trip.Only After five days of email exchange our booking was cancelled by her . Afterwards she told us for the first time it's non refundable, and she is not going to return any amount of our payment even though there is quiet a long time before the accommodation period. We couldn't believe that the owners will take our money for 4 nights while we would not come to her apartment. We understand that owner would like to double her profit.

Be careful before paying in credit cards in advance. Don't be so naive like we were.

We already feel very disappointed, hoping to meet better & nicer hosting !

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1. Re: The owner Kerner Zur Alten Weinkelter Ferienap is not fair !

We always welcome feedback from our Enquirers/Guests. The Enquirer/Guest above had made a booking/reservation. I am aware of his/her full identity, however I shall not print this as it would be unhelpful and would only prove to be as equally petulant as his/her posting. I shall refer to them purely as “Mr/Ms G”.

First of all I shall explain the background and an abridged version of events. (The full transcript runs to some 27 A4 pages) And then lastly my response. Holiday Lettings is an Internet portal we use for Enquiries/Bookings. In short is a one-shop stop for the Holiday Maker/Traveller and all contact, questions and payments are handled direct through this portal. It is extremely good for the holiday rental business as it is a trusted and well-proved business partner.

Holiday Lettings UK is part of Trip Advisor. The Internet booking portal allows the Holiday Maker/Traveller to securely book a holiday destination using credit cards, which “Mr/Ms G”. Decided to do. This is done through the online booking form on Holiday Lettings/Trip Advisor website and the full terms and conditions are extremely clearly laid out, and to enable you to complete your booking you have to accept them. Also clearly stated is that the hotel or accommodation owner does not receive any payment whatsoever until 48 hours after the guests have arrived.

On the 3/8/2013 “Mr/Ms G”. Made an enquiry about our apartment “Kerner” then once satisfied “Mr/Ms G” confirmed the booking and paid using his/her credit card with Holiday Rentals/Trip Advisor. The dates booked were 30/8/2013 until 3/9/2013 the apartment they requested “ Kerner “was available and we accepted the booking.

On the 9/8/2013 approximately a week later “Mr/Ms G” contacted us using the Holiday Lettings/Trip Advisor portal asking why the property was cheaper on our property business website and whether they had booked apartment “Riesling”. (Which is one of the remaining 3 other apartments at Zur Alten Weinkelter) We explained at length that the extra cost was the booking fee charged by Holiday Lettings/Trip Advisor that is very clearly displayed online and was itemised on the quote He/She accepted. We also informed them that He/She had booked apartment“Kerner”

On the 9/8/2013 the same day “Mr/Ms G”. Decided that He/She wanted to cancel the booking. He/She was told to follow the cancellation procedure on the Holiday Lettings/Trip Advisor booking site. Which to our knowledge was not carried out. Holiday Lettings/Trip Advisor have confirmed this.

On the 10/8/2013 “Mr/Ms G”. Requested a refund and was asked once again to confirm the cancellation on the Holiday Lettings/Trip Advisor booking site and refer to the conditions of booking.

On the 11/8/2013 “Mr/Ms G”. Then telephoned myself at home in Germany. He/She wanted to cancel His/Her booking and claim a refund of monies paid to Holiday Lettings/Trip Advisor and that He/She had tried to contact Holiday Lettings/Trip Advisor apparently without success. He/She had not however cancelled His/Her booking on the Holiday Lettings/Trip Advisor booking site. I looked up a direct telephone number for the Holiday Lettings office in the UK for Him/Her so He/She could try again. I made it absolutely clear that we were in no position to issue a refund, as we did not have His/Her money and they should refer to His/Her agreed terms and conditions. We as accommodation owners only receive money 48 hours after a guest has arrived or presumably on a confirmed cancellation both of which were not fulfilled. I must say “Mr/Ms G”. At this point was most polite articulate and it was a pleasure to speak to and help where we could.

On the 12/8/2013 The apartment” Kerner “ was still not cancelled. “Mr/Ms G”. Had tried to contact Holiday Lettings/Trip Advisor for the past 5 days apparently without success.

On the 13/8/2013 We understand “Mr/Ms G”. Was now talking to Trip Advisor I presume in their offices in the USA. So there was Trip Advisor USA, Holiday Lettings UK, Maria In London UK on Holiday visiting family and myself at home in Germany and “Mr/Ms G”. Who I presume was still at home in the “middle east”.

“Mr/Ms G”. Needed only to follow His/Her instructions on the Holiday Lettings/Trip Advisor online booking portal and the booking could have been cancelled 9 days prior. However He/She chose to try and pursue His/Her own course of action.

On the 14/8/2013 under written instructions from Holiday Lettings/Trip Advisor we were asked to cancel the booking. And that “Mr/Ms G”. Had finally contacted them, with these instructions in place we were permitted to cancel the booking on the owner Holiday Lettings/Trip Advisor administration portal. Once cancelled “Mr/Ms G”. Realised in line with His/Her booking conditions, which He/She agreed to there was to be no refund of either the accommodation fee, booking fee or any commission fee paid to Holiday Lettings/Trip Advisor.

On the 15/8/2013 “Mr/Ms G”. Contacted us and wanted to now stay (arrive) again as there was no refund (basically He/She wanted to cancel the cancellation request He/She had made previously) although He/She had mentioned He/She had made other arrangements for His/Her travel. At this point I intervened and under my instruction any bookings for the now cancelled “ Kerner “apartment were not to be accepted. The position I was now in was simple. I understand “Mr/Ms G”. Had requested a refund from Holiday Lettings/Trip Advisor and myself although I did not have His/Her money. I would not re-let the” Kerner “ apartment as I still had no confirmed written cancellation and until such time, I would reserve it for “Mr/Ms G”. I did not know if Holiday Lettings/Trip Advisor had issued or would issue a refund. In such an event where “Mr/Ms G”. Received a refund, He/She could still stay but we simply would not have been paid if the booking were indeed not cancelled.

On the 15/8/2013 I made the decision that nobody including “Mr/Ms G”. Could rent the “Kerner” apartment until I had confirmation of the situation either from Trip Advisor or Holiday Lettings. I was expecting by the weekend to have the situation clarified and have satisfactory confirmation of the cancellation, which would mean “Mr/Ms G”. Could stay with no extra charge, naturally for us a booking is a booking! At this point He/She was still asking Maria for a refund communicating by E mail which was impossible, as we still did not have His/Her money, and under the terms and conditions He/She agreed to on confirming the booking He/She was not entitled to one.

On the 19/8/2013 I was astonished to receive reports that “Mr/Ms G”. Had posted across the World Wide Web such defamatory remarks as above.

Please take time to read His/Her submission of events and ours, which are securely documented with Holiday Lettings/Trip Advisor and us, as the majority of the communication was made via e mail and using the Holiday Lettings/Trip Advisor Renter/Enquirers conversation portal.

The statement “We understand that the owner would like to double her profit” is at best untrue, ill conceived, misleading and I personally think deeply malicious and an attempt to discredit our business and deeply upsetting for Maria. I would like to make one point absolutely crystal clear we did not, have not or planned to re-let the “ Kerner “ apartment whilst “Mr/Ms G”s position was not clear. Indeed I would welcome proof from “Mr/Ms G”. To support His/Her allegations and to invite Him/Her to forward a copy of His/Her original booking contract He/She agreed to online with Holiday Lettings/Trip Advisor.

We are now in the process of taking advice on the content and tone of his/her posting. It seems apparent that “Mr/Ms G”. Either did not read, digest or did not understand the conditions of booking that He/She agreed to.

I now have received full confirmation of “Mr/Ms G”. S cancellation. This now leaves me in a position to offer the “ Kerner “ apartment for re letting for the dates as mentioned above. So from 22/8/2013 at midday (12 noon) the “ Kerner “apartment will now available to rent and enjoy. Indeed the apartment is also available for “Mr/Ms G”. In question as He/She requested on 15/8/2013 but in light of His/Her submission above He/She claims to have a sudden change in His/Her travel plans, on 10/8/2013 three (3) weeks before arrival. In reality on the 10/8/2013 as I have written from the original transcript He/She agreed that He/She had made a mistake by booking the wrong apartment. So which is it?

As I have said I would be prepared to entertain a new enquiry from “Mr/Ms G”. Under certain conditions, however in light of the personal attack He/She has made upon our business and us I doubt this will be the case.

On a general note “Mr/Ms G”. Referred him/herself as being naive for booking using a credit card. In fact they did exactly the right thing. I would urge anybody to use credit cards to book or purchase large value goods in particularly on line. Most credit card companies are usually jointly or partly accountable for the purchase and will often give refunds where appropriate; it gives the consumer an extra level of protection. I do not know which card “Mr/Ms G”. Used, as we did not take payment. It is also prudent to ensure that when booking a holiday weather online or direct the Holidaymaker/Traveller takes out adequate holiday insurance so in the event of “a sudden change in our trip” they may be able to make a valid claim. Indeed we would happy to supply any supporting confirmation of booking and cancellation to any of our guests or their insurers if it helps them make a claim.

This is a one and only reply to this message, however if anyone would like further information about this issue or would like any more information about our holiday apartments you are welcome to email directly at


Mike E Wilson

Frankfurt, Germany
Level Contributor
5,141 posts
36 reviews
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2. Re: The owner Kerner Zur Alten Weinkelter Ferienap is not fair !

Phew, that's strong stuff!

And to me it seems crystal clear that it's another case of "why bothering with small print" and "terms and conditions are made for other, not for us".

Honestly, I would consider sueing "Mr./Ms.G" for label when they spread this nonsense all over the www.

Dublin, Ireland
Destination Expert
for Austria
Level Contributor
16,522 posts
69 reviews
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3. Re: The owner Kerner Zur Alten Weinkelter Ferienap is not fair !

fully agree, quiltneedle. it is not nice to put a post on an international site, dissing a person/business, when you are not even providing the correct info.

in reality. ta should remove the libellous post