Came across this article this morning:
Thank you JHS.....
In reading the article you can see the buck passing and fear of being sued by the families of those tresspassing and getting injured or killed...
including even if they put up a fence, Grove Farm can be sued by the sue happy visitors. They say that they would be laible if they even recognize publicaly that a danger exists........
I totally agree that Kipu Falls and Queens Bath should be excluded from travel guides , books , magazine articles, and travel films that we see on TV. Will that happen...who knows...
Regarless the visitors and locals alike will ignore warning signs, warnings by rescue personnel posted out in front of the trails, ignore fenced or gated or posted property. They tear down the fences or gates. They ignore warnings from local people....and that includes dangerous areas other than Kipu Falls. And they have no respect for posted private lands.
As far as the fencing......and posting at Kipu......they might deter some folks and save a few lives just by putting up tall strong fences, and signage not to TRESSPASS ON PRIVATE PROPETY. Make it a county code, and then arrest a few folks and put them in the slammer, then go to court, see a judge and pay the fine or do the time. Nice way to spend a valued and looked forward to vacation...NOT !
Put that in the paper, and get the word out that KPD will be patrolling. People have to drive there, and their cars are on that side road, so pretty evident that the law is being brokenand where they are located.
There are so many beautiuful places to see and visit and enjoy, that there is no reason to put anyones life on in jeapordy.
Most people posting here are well aware of these dangers and to stay off posted land.
They know to stay safe, and keep their family safe
Great article, jhsteacher, and thanks for posting it. It's a very graphic article and if everyone going there read it I believe most would stop and think twice about going. Five drownings in the past 5 years and 2 just since December. Significant numbers since this is just a small pool. Also, most have died by simply not resurfacing or being pulled down to the bottom. It does make you wonder why forces of nature are happening there.
No trespassing signs and the KPD patrolling the area is a great idea. I would HOPE that these would encourage the guidebook writers to remove them from their books but not counting on it with some of them.
I know, I wish the guidebook writers would remove them from their books as well! I don't have a thrill-seeking personality so it doesn't appeal to me at all, but it is glamorized when these dangerous places are called "hidden gems." Very dangerous if that is the only place people are getting information. Too bad everyone going to Kauai didn't read TA first! :)
The area is nothing to write home about either. Pretty uninspiring scenery - dry, dusty, flat and scrubbrush. Never understood why it would be considered a gem.
one poster mentioned trespassing, and I totally respect that, but you can't really make that argument about Queens bath, in particular,since its on the beach or am I missing something?
40000+ people are killed every year driving on roads. Maybe we should ban driving. Yes Kipu Falls can be dangerous but it is far safer than driving on many highways in the US.
I think some people here must have serious control issues. One more thing that has bothered me about all this...
Regardless of how you feel about ANY of these activities some have advocated trying to force writers to take these places out of their books. That is flat out censorship. Sorry, while I may, or may not, do the things they talk in these books censorship is not the answer. Even if I hate what someone is saying (or writing) I will defend their right to express it whether it be political, religious, or something supposedly as innocuous as a travel book. And those of you that would try to force these writers to change, I fear you more than ANY activity they could EVER write about.Edited: 21 July 2011, 04:24
I understand your point about freedom of speech with authors writing about Kipu Falls. But. we have to remember that they're subtly advocating trespassing onto private property.
That said, there is nothing illegal about them putting their recommendation into writing because that alone is NOT trespassing . However, I do believe that authors should make the right decision themselves when it comes to putting it into print. When authors do not take it upon themselves to do the right thing then it comes down to the visitors using their own commonsense about trespassing.
driving a car could be considered a necessary, calculated risk. going to dangerous places where most any local and/or hawaiian would tell you is an unnecessary/foolish risk. it's much like turning your back to the ocean. apples and oranges.
it is not a question of censorship. it's a matter of not listing places as if they're disneyland rides. video after video have been posted on the hawaiian forums of people doing very foolish things that have nearly taken their lives. the local people who post on these forums are giving you solid information...from first hand knowledge and experience. it is being offered to readers of these forums for THEIR benefit....NOT the posters. they have absolutely nothing to gain but helping people have a safe--sometime once in a lifetime vacation in paradise.
if i were in a place that i wasn't overly familiar with and a local person said to me..."hey...you might not want to do that...and here's the reason why"....i think i'd pay more attention to them over what might be written in a guidebook.
"driving a car could be considered a necessary, calculated risk. going to dangerous places where most any local and/or hawaiian would tell you is an unnecessary/foolish risk. it's much like turning your back to the ocean. apples and oranges".
foolish? By whose standards? Who gets to decide for everyone what that standard is?