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Saving Lions by Killing Them - NY Times OP

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Saving Lions by Killing Them - NY Times OP

One of the most appalling opinion piece on NY Times by the director of wildlife for the Tanzanian Ministry of Natural Resources and Tourism for justifying the need of killing lions for the lust of economic sustainability of Tanzania, and the plague of hunters flocking into Africa. The political and economic corruption has to stop before Tanzania calls for such illogical claims for sustainability. Next door Kenya runs its tourism economics without hunting and is highly sustainable. Why would Tanzania fail? Botswana has stopped all its hunting and is highly sustainable. Tanzania needs to stop all hunting too, and not only lions. There is no way forward but to stop it! Fish and Wildlife Service needs to list lions as endangered - period!

Any thoughts on this?

Saving Lions by Killing Them

By ALEXANDER N. SONGORWA

nytimes.com/2013/…

Published: March 17, 2013

DAR ES SALAAM, Tanzania

ODD as it may sound, American trophy hunters play a critical role in protecting wildlife in Tanzania. The millions of dollars that hunters spend to go on safari here each year help finance the game reserves, wildlife management areas and conservation efforts in our rapidly growing country.

This is why we are alarmed that the United States Fish and Wildlife Service is considering listing the African lion as endangered. Doing so would make it illegal for American hunters to bring their trophies home. Those hunters constitute 60 percent of our trophy-hunting market, and losing them would be disastrous to our conservation efforts.

In 2011, five animal-rights and conservation groups petitioned the Fish and Wildlife Service to list the African lion as endangered, arguing that the population had fallen dangerously low because of habitat loss, poaching, commercial hunting and new diseases associated with human encroachment. “The U.S.,” their petition said, “is by far the largest importer of hunting trophies from Tanzania.”

While that is true, the lion population in Tanzania is not endangered. We have an estimated 16,800 lions, perhaps 40 percent of all lions on the continent, the biggest population in the world. Their numbers are stable here, and while our hunting system is not perfect, we have taken aggressive efforts to protect our lions.

Tanzania has regulated hunting for decades; female and younger lions are completely protected, and the hunting of males is limited by quotas set for each hunting area in the country. We recently made it illegal to hunt male lions younger than 6 years old to ensure that reproductively active animals remained with their prides. And proposed amendments to our wildlife law would further crack down on the export of lions taken illegally, penalize hunting companies that violated our rules and reward those that complied.

Africa, of course, is endowed with a tremendous wealth of wildlife, and Tanzania has been particularly blessed. We have roughly 130,000 elephants, two of Africa’s three largest populations of wild dogs, and spectacular landscapes like the Serengeti, Ngorongoro Crater and Mount Kilimanjaro. We have placed nearly a third of our land in national parks, game reserves and wildlife management areas.

Of all the species found here, lions are particularly important because they draw visitors from throughout the world — visitors who support our tourism industry and economy. Many of these visitors only take pictures. But others pay thousands of dollars to pursue lions with rifles and take home trophies from what is often a once-in-a-lifetime hunt. Those hunters spend 10 to 25 times more than regular tourists and travel to (and spend money in) remote areas rarely visited by photographic tourists.

In Tanzania, lions are hunted under a 21-day safari package. Hunters pay $9,800 in government fees for the opportunity. An average of about 200 lions are shot a year, generating about $1,960,000 in revenue. Money is also spent on camp fees, wages, local goods and transportation. And hunters almost always come to hunt more than one species, though the lion is often the most coveted trophy sought. All told, trophy hunting generated roughly $75 million for Tanzania’s economy from 2008 to 2011.

The money helps support 26 game reserves and a growing number of wildlife management areas owned and operated by local communities as well as the building of roads, schools, hospitals and other infrastructure — all of which are important as Tanzania continues to develop as a peaceful and thriving democracy.

If lions are listed by the United States as an endangered species, American hunters may choose to hunt other prized species outside of Africa or simply not hunt at all. This would add further strain to our already limited budgets, undo the progress we’ve made, and undermine our ability to conserve not only our lions but all of our wildlife.

As Tanzania’s highest-ranking wildlife official, I ask on behalf of my country and all of our wildlife: do not list the African lion as endangered. Instead, help us make the most from the revenues we generate. Help us make trophy hunting more sustainable and more valuable. In short, please work with us to conserve wildlife, rather than against us, which only diminishes our capacity to protect Tanzania’s global treasures.

Alexander N. Songorwa is director of wildlife for the Tanzanian Ministry of Natural Resources and Tourism.

Arusha, Tanzania
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11. Re: Saving Lions by Killing Them - NY Times OP

quotes from the article:

"The millions of dollars that hunters spend to go on safari here each year help finance the game reserves, wildlife management areas and conservation efforts in our rapidly growing country."

and

"The money helps support 26 game reserves and a growing number of wildlife management areas owned and operated by local communities as well as the building of roads, schools, hospitals and other infrastructure "

DISGUSTING!!

the roads suck, where they exist; the power goes out on a regular basis, as does the water; Cell phone and internet access is abysmal. The educational system is poor at best, many kids have no books or supplies, and no desks at which to sit, and the "free" government schools are not free at all and many families cannot afford to send their children to school.

BUT the fat cats get fatter and richer day by day, and the poor get nothing. Bet most of that money that comes in from rich hunters goes right into people's pockets.

and as for hunting for profit and trophies - hunting for food is one thing,but to hang a trophy on the wall , well, in my opinion, the hunters should be hung on the wall. Purely disgusting, is all I have to say. Humankind should be ashamed of the way we treat the rest of the natural world. just shameful!!

Kochi (Cochin...
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12. Re: Saving Lions by Killing Them - NY Times OP

What lopsided logic! Absolutely disgusting !.

I found this link by accident.It made me so sick. See this man gloat over his trophy kills:

africahunting.com/tanzania-hunting-reports/6…

There are many such on that website .

And here's another article that will make you grit your teeth:

theguardian.com/world/2009/sep/06/masai-trib…

Isle of Man, United...
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13. Re: Saving Lions by Killing Them - NY Times OP

I agree. These people are not fit to draw breath.

Fancy shooting something like Warthogs and Duiker? Sick is not the word.

I agree with Kathy <the hunters should be hung on the wall. >

Please can I do the nailing and please can I choose the part to be nailed? I see Thomsons name up there in lights once more!

melbourne
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14. Re: Saving Lions by Killing Them - NY Times OP

250vimala

Thanks for the link and reminder.....there are many of us who have objected to hunting over the years on this forum and elsewhere....what I find still amazing tourists will still use the companies owned by hunting companies

and stay in their lodges and camps....you either object to hunting of Tanzanian wildlife or you don't...you can't have it both ways....I even object to resident hunting for food for the "pot" irrespective if it is a local tanzania, mzungu or a tribal thing. Those days when there were Eland everywhere Kudu or even dik dik I think have long passed.

Mfuwe regarding Thomsons safaris that is a old article but the Maasai are still dispossessed and mistreated on what is their traditional tribal land.--irrespective of the so called "legal" nature of the purchase.

I know this is revisiting an old argument and for some a bit of a rehash but for those still living in the area of dispute it is still very real.

Maybe I will get of my soap box for awhile.

South Riding VA
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15. Re: Saving Lions by Killing Them - NY Times OP

No, NE, I'd like you to get back on your soapbox. I want to understand. I understand perfectly and have been outspoken about trophy hunting, even before I came on this forum of TA.

But are you saying there are no animals that are in such abundance that we can afford condoning hunting them?

I grew up in a hunting family in PA. Everyone, except my father, hunted deer, squirrel, rabbits. But we ate it. I always thought there was a difference if it were hunted and eaten. But in PA and VA for that matter, there are plenty of deer, etc. is that not the case in TZ for the animals they are hunting for food?

Thanks-chris

Edited: 02 November 2013, 21:01
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16. Re: Saving Lions by Killing Them - NY Times OP

I generally make a conscious effort not to judge people but I do make an exception for trophy hunting. I just don't understand the logic of flying halfway around the plane to kill an animal for "sport" that you supposedly respect and admire... I just cannot grasp the logic. Now there are a small army of individuals who shell out gobs of money each year to visit, view and photograph this same wildlife but the animals remain after each visit and are not destroyed... that is sustainable tourism.

I am not a vegetarian and people hunting to eat and survive will not hear much from me but just because you want to prove your as big and bad as a lion with a small cadre of spotters and rifles... give me a break and go buy a convertible corvette or something. I was in Zambia getting on a flight to South Luangwa and here was Joseph Q. Hunter in the airport with his rifle case and it made my stomach turn. I saw beautiful animals to observe an photograph and he saw something to kill and brag about.

Lastly, my gut reaction to poacher stories is that the poachers should be shot or left to the wildlife... I try to resist this thought but it's the first one that always pops into my head... just my 2 cents. For some people it's never enough, they want to hunt wolves from helicopters in the US and mountain lions for "sport" just to put something on a wall... wildlife is just so beautiful in the wild.

melbourne
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17. Re: Saving Lions by Killing Them - NY Times OP

In my opinion the wildlife numbers have reduced considerably and therefore legal hunting for food...resident hunting should not be allowed.

This process is firstly abused and is used also by those who can afford meat...

The resident hunters also hunt in areas close to the National parks..the migration routes and take advantage of that closeness.

Is there a difference hunting a rabbit for food in rural areas of Australia..(I did it in the 60's by the way) ...to hunting in Tanzania what could become rare species Kudu, Eland, or Oryx or even gerenuk for Xmas dinner.

I think there is a difference.

Not just one Eland but up to 5. using that hunting to save money as a goat or cow can be quite expensive ... $3 per kilo.

This hunting is often done by Europeans in tz for the sport as well as the pot...and call it resident hunting.

I see no difference in hunting a lion for its mane or a elephant for its trunk as to hunting Kudu for meat.

I think for Tanzania you cant have your cake and eat it..it is either photography tourism or hunting. You can't go and shoot willdife to eat and then also own or have a safari company..or even work for one.

It is a conflict of interest.

When I first visited tanzania there were 2000 Rhinos in the Tarangire eco system now none that only took 6 years I might add not 30.

How many people have seen a large black maned lion at Tarangire recently.

On the road from Moshi to Arusha in those days you could often see lion , Impala giraffe..not any more.

Why shoot a dik dik when they marry for life when fillet steak is 3000/- a kilo. Perhaps those resident hunters should support the livestock industry.

In answer to your question yes I don't think the wildlife numbers now support any form of hunting.

melbourne
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18. Re: Saving Lions by Killing Them - NY Times OP

Gred

I agree ..my opinion on trophy hunting is well known those who do it are a disgrace.

Isle of Man, United...
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19. Re: Saving Lions by Killing Them - NY Times OP

<<Maybe I will get of my soap box for awhile.>> No way. Keep on it and keep, on at them! It is the constant outcry at Trophy Hunting that will win the day. And given where the majority of these scum come from perhaps our friends in the US can up the anti there too?

I don't have a problem with hunting in the US, for the pot by US people. I have a real problem when they fly over to kill other folks wildlife by waving a big fat cheque book under the noses of greedy corrupt officials. I will also continue to name and shame any "Safari" Lodge that also supports hunting and hunters.

Shooting wolves from a Helicopter is not 'hunting' . It is slaughter by some ba$tard too idle to even get off his Butt and walk. No different to the canned killing practiced in South Africa. Note I am not using the traditional word "hunting" which is simply a modern day euphemism for killing for pleasure. Killers is a more appropriate word. There is no skill in killing for sport.

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20. Re: Saving Lions by Killing Them - NY Times OP

Just wondering is it somehow possible to pin a post to the top warning new people to TA about the camps and Companies owned by hunting companies?

Noexpert you know I am crying by now.