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Kosher restaurant definition help please

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Kosher restaurant definition help please

Hi everyone,

I have a question about the definition of a kosher restaurant in Israel. I eat only kosher here in the U.S., and out of the house I eat vegetarian/dairy, unless I'm going to a kosher deli etc. Now that there's treif being served in restaurants in Israel I just want to make sure I understand the kosher situation.

A place that serves meat, like beef or chicken, even on a menu with treif -- is that meat actually kosher, even if the restaurant might serve shrimp? So I would feel comfortable having chicken even if my DH (who isn't kosher out of our house) would like shrimp or something? Does a restaurant only get a kosher certificate if it's closed on Shabbat?

I guess I'm asking if we are going out to a place in the Namal in Tel Aviv -- are all those restaurants serving kosher meat on their menus, even if they themselves are open on Shabbat and aren't considered "kosher"?

does this make sense? thank you!

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1. Re: Kosher restaurant definition help please

A restaurant that is open on the Sabbath will not get a Kosher certificate. Some restaurants have menus that appear to be all dairy or all meat and they will tell you they are without a certificate because they are open on the Sabbath but "kosher" otherwise. It is your choice to accept or reject that explanation.

Then there are restaurants that serve milk and meat together and restaurants that serve 100% treif ie. shrimp. You ask whether the meat in a restaurant that serve shrimp is inherently kosher That is a question that no one here knows the answer to--it may be or it may not be. You can ask the restaurant itself but then you have to decide if you trust the answer. I doubt anyone on this forum would respond to such a question ( whether they personally keep kosher or not) since no one here has anyway of knowing and what is true for one treif restaurant may not be true for the next.

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2. Re: Kosher restaurant definition help please

OK thanks for the explanation. So it sounds like, in order to be perfectly comfortable for my own level of kashrut re: meat, I should limit myself to dairy/vegetarian unless my cousins say a certain place is ok. I don't mind having a salad in a restaurant if my DH wants meat.

I'm surprised, I guess. I assumed that all chicken/beef in Israel that is raised for consumption would be slaughtered in a kasher way, by a shochet. Is that not so?

Also, another question: The restaurants at the Namal in Tel Aviv, I'm guessing that's open on Shabbat for people who are at the beach etc? So none of those places have a kosher certificate?

thanks very much!

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3. Re: Kosher restaurant definition help please

There is no one-size-fit-all answer, as rdglady says.

Most "mainstream" meat sold in Israel is kosher. That is to say it comes from a kosher supplier. All meat sold in mainstream supermarkets (the big chains such as Mega, Shufersal etc.) is kosher. There are private supermarkets and butchers' shops that sell non-kosher meat.

Even if the meat started life (so to speak!) as kosher, what the purchaser does with it after he/she has bought it is another matter. They may kasher it at home or in the restaurant kitchen (if it isn't kashered in the shop/supplier - some is and some isn't) or they may not. But this would obviously be specific to the restaurant or individual concerned and there is no blanket answer.

And you have no way of knowing whether the meat itself did in fact come from a kosher supplier, beyond asking the restaurant, and of course you don't know whether the answer they give you is truthful. Just as a jeweler can swear that a necklace is pure gold, well, maybe it is and maybe it isn't... it's up to you whether you'll trust him. For all anybody knows they could slaughter the meat/chickens themselves in their backyard using whatever method they like, although if that happens anywhere it's more likely to be in a "farm" type restaurant where they grow all their own produce. (I don't know whether that happens; it's not impossible.)

So you can't be sure that the meat served in a non-kosher restaurant is kosher. If in doubt, don't!

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4. Re: Kosher restaurant definition help please

<< I assumed that all chicken/beef in Israel that is raised for consumption would be slaughtered in a kasher way, by a shochet. Is that not so? >>

Mainstream for general consumption, sold in supermarkets, yes, it's industrial production-line kosher. But as I wrote above, there can be exceptions.

<<The restaurants at the Namal in Tel Aviv, I'm guessing that's open on Shabbat for people who are at the beach etc? So none of those places have a kosher certificate?>>

No restaurant that is open on Shabbat will have a kosher certificate. No matter how kosher the food is in itself, even if the meat comes from a supplier with the most stringent kosher certificate and has never been anywhere near dairy stuff, if the restaurant opens on Shabbat they don't get a certificate. As already said, you can ask them if it's kosher but you have to take their answer on trust. There are no guarantees.

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5. Re: Kosher restaurant definition help please

There are one or two places at the Namal in Tel Aviv that are kosher, have a certificate and are closed on Shabbat.

The only exception to no kosher place with a certificate is open on Shabbat would be hotel dining rooms, coffee shops, etc. They are usually kosher, have a certificate and are open on Shabbat, but unless you are a guest of the hotel and can charge your meal to your room, you cannot go in and get a meal - unless it has been ordered and paid for before Shabbat.

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6. Re: Kosher restaurant definition help please

There are several restaurants at the Namal that are kosher e.g. Lehem-Basar (bread & meat). They do not cater to those going to the beach as there is no beach there. That area is not suitable for swimming.

You will find in Jerusalem a few restaurants that claim to be kosher, closed on Shabat and no certificate. This is a new trend.

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7. Re: Kosher restaurant definition help please

<<You will find in Jerusalem a few restaurants that claim to be kosher, closed on Shabat and no certificate.>>

Yes, but that isn't what Hikrgirl is asking. She wants to know if the meat in a restaurant that serves shrimp (because her husband wants to eat shrimp) will be kosher (because she eats only kosher meat). Obviously the restaurant won't be kosher by any stretch of the imagination if it serves shrimp. But her question is *would the meat in that restaurant be kosher?*

Bottom line is that there is no way of knowing. And Hikrgirl, would it bother you that the meat, even if it is kosher, is served on plates that have been used for shrimp? That the same pots and pans are used for both?

If you want to be sure that the meat/chicken is kosher you have to eat in a restaurant with a kashrut certificate.

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8. Re: Kosher restaurant definition help please

Hi,

Many restaurants in Jewish-majority parts of the country are kosher simply because there is a demand for kosher restaurants. Most places that are strictly kosher will have a printed cirtificate (in Hebrew) from either the local rabbinate or from some other rabbinical organization. If you want to make sure, ask to see a "te'udat kashrut". However, there are some places that are kosher but do not have a cirtificate, either because they don't want to pay the fees involved or because they are opened on Shabbat. From what you write, this should be okay with you. The best way to tell is to look at the menu. If you see both milk and meat dishes, or you see pork or seafood, then they are not kosher, and they would have no reason to serve beef that is kosher either. If there is no meat at all and no seafood, chances are the food will be kosher. Also, if you see a lot of people with a kippa on their heads eating inside, obviously the place is kosher.

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9. Re: Kosher restaurant definition help please

Yigal, you are another one who has completely misread the question.

<<A place that serves meat, like beef or chicken, even on a menu with treif -- is that meat actually kosher, even if the restaurant might serve shrimp?>>

And read my answers, at posts 4 and 7!

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10. Re: Kosher restaurant definition help please

Please read Shuffaluff's response no. 7 - many responses seem to have missed what the OP is asking.

She is not looking for a kosher restaurant - she knows that since she wants her husband to be able to eat totally treif food -what she wants to know is that if he is eating shrimp, will the meat she orders in the same place be meat that underwent kosher shechitta and that is a question that no one here can answer - the only place to get that information is at the specific restaurant in question and then it is up to her, if she feels she can trust their response.