hiking in Kamikochi later this month with children

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hiking in Kamikochi later this month with children
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I’m planning a trip to Kamikochi towards the end of the month to introduce my almost-10 and 7 year old sons to hiking. We’ll have almost four days (arriving from Tokyo on the evening of May 22nd, returning to Tokyo for the night of Tuesday 26th).

I would like an interesting mix of activities and sights (mountain huts, onsen, campfires, maybe the ropeway, Yakedake, monkeys, a bit of rock-climbing, and Matsumoto Castle). I'd like the weekend to be a continuous hike, rather than day trips separated by bus rides.

I have hiked a lot, but never in Japan. Thus, I’m looking for someone who can help me plan an interesting, challenging, but safe adventure. We won’t need a tour guide, just help outlining possible routes. If there was a good agency, I'd also be willing to pay for advice.

ありがとうございます、

Colin

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1. Re: hiking in Kamikochi later this month with children
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How I wish you could come at least a month later so you could tick all you say off your wish list! Yes, I had to cogitate on them before typing this so I wouldn't act as if I wanted to rain on your parade... Without further ado, I would suggest:

1)May 22

Do the castle before coming in the alps, since it is along your way there if you depart from Tokyo. After the castle, you can hit Shin Hotaka (rather than come directly to Kamikochi) to stay overnight here by taking a Nohi Bus from Matsumoto. Note onsen places are galore, but that many if not most of them aren't as *extroverted* as you may like, communication/booking-wise... Should you want me to recommend some, I will if I know your budget.

2)May 23

Do the Ropeway (and go beyond it to reach a mountain hut, 1hr-long trek required, and from here continue on to the lowest peak of the West Hotaka Mountains, 50meter-long quasi/easy rock climbing involved, and get back to the said hut from where you either hit Yakedake and descend all the way to Kamikochi, a long day for sure for your family, OR you skip Yakedake and climb down to Kamikochi..., all of which are doable during summer months.) As of now, you are denied access to/from Yakedake from/to Kamikochi because they dismantled ladders/bridges so they wouldn't get damaged by avalanches. You may be able to 'climb down' to KK, but foot traces may not be spotted as clearly as you'd want. So to err on the safe side, you may like to bus it back to Hirayu and from here take a KK-bound shuttle bus. Stay in KK.

3) May 24

Do the walk all the way along the river: takes 4hrs, give or take, time to rest exluded. Maybe half as long again, or an hour or so longer than that, I guess. So call that a day. You sure spot macaques somewhere, that I can assure you.

4) May 25

I would suggest hitting Karasawa and stay one night..., if interested then see pics in here:

http://www.karasawa-hyutte.com/山口孝フォトギャラリー/

if you were all adult hikers... (Trekking 7hrs all the way up into it is pushing the envelope in your milieu, still more if getting back on the same day even for young and robust adults.) So my suggestion is, you hit Dakesawa Hut instead as a day hike, which will eat up the better part of the day: 5-6hrs return. Your children will sure say they want to return here years later so they can have a huge reward by summiting peaks right over there.

5) May 26

Hit Takayama, which is about 80min bus ride away from KK (transfer needed at Hirayu). Walk on the preserved old streets and visit Jinya (and also Shiroyama Park if time allows). Opinion may differ, I know, but Takayama is a must in your itinerary, IMO.

Lastly, campfires are prohibited in KK, so don't do. You need to wear ankle-covered trek boots preferably. Yes, caravan shoes may probably be ok, depending on the amount of lingering snow. Talking about snowfall, it's incredible the way KK has it during the wintertime. I came in KK 1st week of March this year, when I had to struggle against knee-thigh-deep stuff immediately after crossing Tashiro-Hotaka Bridge, which place would command very nice views of the alps and the riverflow (along with Yakedake) weather permitting. I didn't think at that time that snow would melt so fast in April: I did some google-search for my next visit here during the latter half of Golden Week we are now in already, so I know all too familiar snow-blanketed mountain sites in that week have now turned into snow-capped ones this year. Extraordinary event, snow-wise, I gather. But that'll do you good in trekking through KK and a bit beyond.

Have a blast!

<<I would like an interesting mix of activities and sights (mountain huts, onsen, campfires, maybe the ropeway, Yakedake, monkeys, a bit of rock-climbing, and Matsumoto Castle). I'd like the weekend to be a continuous hike, rather than day trips separated by bus rides.>>

Edited: 5 years ago
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2. Re: hiking in Kamikochi later this month with children
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Dear Shot,

Thank you very much for your detailed and thoughtful reply. I've sketched a modified version of your plan below to ask if it makes sense. Once we've got a plan, I'll take you up on your offer to suggest places to stay.

Spending Friday night in Shin-hotaka rather than KK sounds like a good idea.

On Saturday, is the mountain hut that you mention, an hour beyond the ropeway, Nishiho Sanso? Would continuing to Yakedake, and then returning to Nishiho Sanso for the night work? (It seems a bit shorter a first hiking day, which could be a nicer start.)

On Sunday, could we get from Nishiho Sanso to Dakesawa, to spend the night there? Would we need to go through KK to do so? If so, do you think that the climb down from NS to KK is manageable, even without the ladders and bridges?

If we overnight at Dakesawa, then - on Monday - we could descend back into the valley, and continue up the river to overnight at Tokusawa or Yokoo.

Finally, Tuesday we'd return back to KK, out to Takayama, and back to Tokyo.

ありがとうございます、

Colin

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Your tentative itinerary sounds nice if done a month later. By that I mean there's a couple of unknown factors as of now that you need settled: 1) whether or not Nishiho Hut to Yakedake is doable will depend on how fast snow melts away (so beware of slushy trails as you approach Yakedake), and do note springtime climb around here is not at all free of falling rocks, and for that matter some small rocks you tread on along your way tend to be unstable because of thawing. So if you like to avoid the above then you should take the trail going all the way down to Kamikochi from Nishiho Hut. Yes again, whether or not that’s doable depends on the amount of snow lingered on that trail, which I never been on so far, but on which I hear there’s no ladders/bridges spanning dangerous spots… So ask staff at the said mountain hut if that is doable. In case not, I suggest you head toward the lowest peak of West Hotaka/Nishiho, known as Doppyo Peak, which towers about 8800feet above sea-level. No, I am not suggesting you summit it in case you are not comfortable with it. (You may need to wear crampons doing it anyway.) But you’d sure feel a greatest alpine feel as you approach it. Yes, the drawback is, you have to backtrack your way via the ropeway to Shin Hotaka and then from here ride 2buses to KK if the Nishiho Hut to KK trail is not doable…

As for Nishiho Hut to Dakesawa, you are right in thinking that you need to go through KK. Um, yes, an expert (or a daredevil hiker) would try traversing mountain ridges in the Hotakas, to climb down to Dakesawa, but that takes a whole lot more time and possibly their lives too… Fyi, perhaps those getting to Dakesawa Hut from KK take that as a daytrip, unless they are serious hikers/experts who think of reaching a farther height from there: peaks like Maeho and Okuho. Btw, I would forego the idea of going farther up along the river until Tokusawa or Yokoo this time around if I were you, but should you hit Karasawa then you might like to stay in either place.

Sorry for the rambling preamble above, so my suggestion is:

For day1 stay in Shin Hotaka; day2 stay at Nishiho Hut and do either Yakedake or Doppyo Peak as a day trip; day3 go in KK either from a direct trail from the said mountain hut or via ropeway and buses, AND then explore KK then; day4 hit Dakesawa Hut and get back to KK so you can further explore it later in the day; day5 head to Takayama and have another type of fun here.

Happy planning!

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Thank you again Shot: I'm beginning to get a good picture of the possibilities.

What would you think of our starting in Nakanoyu instead of Shin Hotaka? I ask as I'd put Yakedake higher on my list of priorities than the ropeway. Saturday we'd climb Yakedake, and continue to Nishiho Sanso (by foot if the route is open and safe, otherwise, descending back to Nakanoyu & taking a bus to the ropeway). Sunday, we'd climb towards Doppyo Peak, and get to KK for the night. Then we're back on your schedule, above.

If this sounded good to you, could I ask you about places to stay? If possible, I prefer simple, rustic, places with a 'hiking feel' where we can talk to other hikers. (I wonder if staying outside of Kamikochi itself would be nicer for this reason - and also less expensive.)

Should we bring snow trousers?

じゃね、

Colin

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Nakanoyu-Yakedake-Nishiho Hut would be nice, but to do that maybe you'd need to stay here in Nakanoyu:

http://www.nakanoyu-onsen.jp/

(Japanese language only, so hopefully you have someone/travel agent fluent in Japanese on hand)

Contact info: 0263-95-2407 (phone); 0263-95-2514 (fax); nakanoyu@nakanoyu-onsen.jp (email)

I would try faxing/emailing them in English first, to know if they can deal with overseas guests. If you don't stay here, you'll have a hard time trying to locate the trailhead...

Btw, I am leaving for the Alps (on the Matsumoto side, known as Hotaka) at 'dawn's early light' tomorrow, no not sumitting Mt Jonen or Mt Chogatake but just explore the lower parts of the area for my photo shoot, (how nice summiting would be around this time! yet I can't risk my life, am scared of avalanches and above all time-constrained), and go in KK the next day. So once there I'll ask someone in the know if Yakedake-KK and NIshiho Hut-KK are doable.

Am not sure about 'snow trousers,' but if that's akin to ski pants then maybe you won't need ones unless you venture out in bad weather conditions. But I advise you bring:

http://tinyurl.com/naspl4v

AND (6-point) crampons just in case.

Edited: 5 years ago
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おへんじありがとう Shot!

I'm trying to book into the various lodges now.

re: gaiters and crampons, is there anywhere in Tokyo that would have a good children's section, or should I bring them with me from the UK?

Good climbing,

Colin

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I came back from KK a few hours ago already. I dropped in at Info Center and asked a lady staff stationed there what you want to know. Here's what I heard from her today: 1) re Yakedake to KK, they are planning to put ladders and bridges back in place later this month, but a summiter will need to use an ice axe and wear crampons once near the summit even at the end of this month, (note Yakedake Hut opens in the middle of next month, so it can tell you something...); 2) re Nishiho Hut to KK, (unlike Ropeway Station to Nishiho Hut) it is still nigh-on impossible to trace others by their snow-footprints on that trail, so unless you are taken in tow by someone in the know you'll get easily lost, and crampons are a must for those doing it; 3) re Ropeway Station to Nishiho Hut to Doppyo Peak, the said hut is accessible (with tons of footprints visibly left) but you better bring crampons for the last segment of the steep trail leading to it, but summiting will be a different story...

Btw, tommorow I'm going to edit photos I took in KK today, so I think I can let you know online how Yakedake looks as of now. Yes, snow-capped mountains around here have already turned into snow-threaded ones, but then a relatively privileged few seem to have done Hotaka Mountains this spring, not sure about Yakedake, the only one volcano still active in here, though. (Two lost their lives in Mt Okuho Monday this week sliding down along an icy slope, so I heard from the staff of the hotel I stayed overnight yesterday.) Yes, there's a few avid skiers going down the gorgeous slope of Yakedake (particularly once avalanches are gone) but should they tumble they'd sure slither hundreds of meters down to somewhere near the hedge of picture-perfect Taisho Pond, unless they hit a boulder along the way. Talking of Yakedake, today is the first time I smelled of sulfur gas here. No, not a big deal. I have no mind to scare you off. ;) It's just a tad bit stinky wind was coming down from that active volcano, which kept puffing out thin though visible smokes while I was on its shore today. Fwiw, the only time I was scared to death by that lethal gas so far was not around here, but in a place called Raichozawa in Tateyama back when, when our ski party was stranded on the way back to Murodo due to the whiteout we were temporarily suffering.

Stay safe and enjoy your hike!

Edited: 5 years ago
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Sorry I forgot to answer your question. I never seen crampons that are to be specifically for child use... One thing for sure is, if you buy while here then you need to bring in your child's shoes so you can know if/how they fit. Um, gators.., again never seen ones for kids. But given how children will outgrow them, umm...., maybe you'd be better off not bothering, I mean you can bring anything you know fits from your home. Sorry, that didn't answer anything. Maybe you wish online rentals were available here, but am not sure...

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Dear Shot,

Thank you so much - this really is very generous of you.

Do you think that it's feasible to get to Nishiho Sanso in a day from Nakanoyu if we avoid Yakedake's summit? If we can get to Nishiho Sanso, then we can take the ropeway down to get to KK even if we can't walk down directly.

If getting to Nishiho Sanso from Nakanoyu will be too hard, then maybe it's better to spend Friday night at the bottom of Shin Hotaka. What do you think?

We'll probably not get to Matsumoto much before 8pm as we're leaving Tokyo after school. Nakanoyu Onsen says that the only way to reach them at that time is by private car. Are there any reasonably priced taxi or transfer services that could get us there?

Finally, about gaiters and crampons, is there a store in Tokyo that you'd look at first?

I look forward to seeing your photos.

じゃね、

Colin

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10. Re: hiking in Kamikochi later this month with children
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<<Do you think that it's feasible to get to Nishiho Sanso in a day from Nakanoyu if we avoid Yakedake's summit? If we can get to Nishiho Sanso, then we can take the ropeway down to get to KK even if we can't walk down directly.>>

Please read my next post.

<<If getting to Nishiho Sanso from Nakanoyu will be too hard, then maybe it's better to spend Friday night at the bottom of Shin Hotaka. What do you think?>>

Sounds like a better/safer bet, honestly…. Again, please read my next post, where I think I will talk further more about the Nakanoyu-Yakedake-Nishiho Hut route.

<<We'll probably not get to Matsumoto much before 8pm as we're leaving Tokyo after school. Nakanoyu Onsen says that the only way to reach them at that time is by private car. Are there any reasonably priced taxi or transfer services that could get us there?>>

You leave 'after school?' Umm, sorry to get a bit too personal, but then you are a local resident in Tokyo, are you? That doesn't matter... Anyway, you need to come in the daylight hours. As far as I know, once the night falls no cabs are available in/near Shinshimashima, the end station on Matsuden Railways... Assuming you can come well before then, all you need to do is take Matsuden Train from Matsumoto to Shinshimashima and from here switch to Alpico Bus going in KK. Btw, is your child ok riding a bus 65min on end and that on curves after curves of the long though paved country road? Am a grownup child sometimes, but I did it just 2days ago. ;) I know you won’t hit Takayama first, but Takayama to Hirayu to KK is a lot better bus journey, given the creature comfort of young ones, imho. Yes, views are better on this side of the alps, though.

<<Finally, about gaiters and crampons, is there a store in Tokyo that you'd look at first?>>

I don’t live there anymore, so am sorry I can’t give you names of shops rightly … Yet, I’d look for one maybe in the Okachimachi area, selling mountain gear. If you type in, say, kojitsu sanso or ishi sports, in your google-box, then relevant sites will pop up, I gather. But then I haven’t in mine though… Um, honestly I’ve spent some time mulling over this, but you guys may not need gaiters if you don’t summit Yakedake, by that I mean going around North Peak. For details, again read my tip in my next post. Anyway, doing without gaiters won’t kill you this time around, but crampons will be a life and death matter, so do bring them.

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