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Hand Pay - Why?

England
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Hand Pay - Why?

Following the thread from Breeze and not wanting to go off topic there, can I just ask.....

With the use of TITOs, why do casinos still hand pay? If it is for tax purposes, how is winning at slots different from the guy winning a 5k bet at a BJ table? Are there separate tax rules for the type of game?

Las Vegas, Nevada
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1. Re: Hand Pay - Why?

GARSONS51..

Any "single win" of over $1200 generates a W2G and must be a hand pay. I don't play BJ, but I guess it would be the same there - it would have to be a single win...not cumulative. I know that if you are doing really well on VP and manage to get the machine over 1200 with multiple wins, you can cash out the TITO without a hand pay. Hope that helps?

Stevenage, United...
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2. Re: Hand Pay - Why?

And as a Brit (European) you should not have to pay tax due to a tax treaty. I have not had too. I have a post about it ' A Brit wins a Handpay'. I now have had 3 handpays.

Cockermouth, United...
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3. Re: Hand Pay - Why?

It would be nice to have that dilemma, perhaps this trip.

Irvine, California
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4. Re: Hand Pay - Why?

Here's a thread that explains the tax implications at table games.

tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g45963-i10-k339780…

Just to clear up some terminology used in earlier posts, you don't actually "pay" tax on a hand pay. It's has to be withheld by the casino under IRS rules and the player can offset it against losses at the end of the year, which is a major reason that players cards make win/loss statements available.

As has been said, a UK taxpayer should receive winnings in full - player needs to complete IRS paperwork and will subsequently receive an ITIN (Individual Taxpayer Identification Number) from the IRS to speed up the process in the future.

That's a brief outline and apologies if I've not get everything quite right.. No doubt others will tell you not to take advice on tax issues here and to contact a lawyer or the IRS.... :-)

Edited: 31 December 2012, 10:56
England
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5. Re: Hand Pay - Why?

Blagger, cannot think to whom you are referring!! Thanks for that link. Assume that the posters on Breezes' link who received a hand pay of less than 1200USD were paid due to some machine malfinction? I once received a hand pay for 12 USD on a defective machine!! A bit embarassing really.

Boston...
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6. Re: Hand Pay - Why?

"No doubt others will tell you not to take advice on tax issues here and to contact a lawyer or the IRS.... :-)"

Took the words right out of bridgefanss (er-"Losvu's") mouth. LOL!

Table games are an oddity. I've had a number of single pays higher than that, and the game doesn't stop for them to generate paperwork. Pure speculation on my part, but I'm guessing it's easier to track at a table, as anyone playing that level likely had a players card.

Furthermore, if I turn around and lose it, I don't need to do the paperwork, as losses have offset wins. On the other hand, most large cash outs at the cage require ID or a players card. So I think they are tracking it one way or another.

Schertz, Texas
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7. Re: Hand Pay - Why?

I play a game called Let it Ride which is a poker derivative-type game in which you are not playing against anyone else at the table. In this game, if you win more than $1200 cumulatively over the course of your play, you are not subject to receipt of any tax liability. One is only taxed on any winning off of the $1 bonus bet, if the bonus for one hand is more than $1200. Example: Last year, I hit a 5 card straight flush for $8400....$400 for the 3 card bonus I played, $2K each for my 3 $10 bets and $2K for the $1 bonus bet. My only tax liability and W2G was for the $2K won on the $1 bonus.

p.s. and they did stop the game to verify the win, taking all the cards out of the shufflemaster machine, and the time to prepare the tax form....

Edited: 31 December 2012, 12:43
birm
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8. Re: Hand Pay - Why?

Because the IRS Code says so.

Check the IRS website for the guidelines

England
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9. Re: Hand Pay - Why?

LOSVU, no thanks - happy to discuss it on here as a matter of interest, but no further.

Did you know (and this IS true) that the US tax code is four times as long as the complete works of Shakespeare. Count 'em if you don't believe me!!

wisconsin
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10. Re: Hand Pay - Why?

You will receive a WG2 on bets which have a payoff of 300-1 or greater at table games or sportsbook bets. Thus no WG2's at blackjack, roulette and the LIR bet on the straight flush as mentioned did not pay off at 300-1 or greater, thus no WG2 on that but the bonus bet has a payoff higher than that.